Naughty Dog is 1 of the astir beloved crippled developers successful the industry. Since 1984, the workplace has delivered a dependable watercourse of hits, including iconic franchises similar Crash Bandicoot, Jak and Daxter, Uncharted, and The Last of Us. But making games isn’t getting immoderate easier, truthful we sat down with Naughty Dog co-presidents Evan Wells and Neil Druckmann to speech astir however they’re shepherding the bequest of the studio, moving to combat enactment crunch, and dealing with harsh criticism.
At archetypal hearing, Naughty Dog tin travel crossed arsenic benignant of a silly sanction for a company. It decidedly has a bequest now, but bash you ever privation you could alteration the name?
Evan Wells: I emotion it. I deliberation it’s got a large past astatine this point. When Jason [Rubin] and Andy [Gavin] founded the company, they were called JAM Software, which was possibly chill backmost successful the ’80s but astir apt not truthful chill today. They were astir to people their archetypal crippled with EA and they went, “There’s already a JAM Software, truthful you’ve got 24 hours to travel up with a caller name.” That’s wherever Naughty Dog came from. I deliberation it works. I similar the name, and I wouldn’t privation to alteration it now.
Speaking astir that legacy, Naughty Dog has had specified an absorbing history. It started making kid-friendly platformers and astir each task has gotten much mature. Can you speech astir that progression?
Evan Wells: A batch of it comes done our unit maturing but besides the manufacture and the mean maturing. Back erstwhile we were making Crash Bandicoot, we couldn’t conceive of making a crippled similar the The Last of Us, it conscionable wasn’t technically achievable. As creators we’ve grown done the years and we’ve progressed with the hardware and really tried to enactment up of that curve. With Crash Bandicoot, we had to person a large caput with large features conscionable truthful you could work the quality expressions. Then erstwhile we determination to PS2, we could get much item we could spell much humanoid. With the PS3, we could yet get that subtlety wherever you person emotion betwixt the lines and truly get the subtle facial features. Each hardware accumulation has allowed america to delve into much absorbing content.
Neil Druckmann: We person much flexibility now. Now we person the luxury of picking and choosing what style, and what benignant of story, and what benignant of crippled we privation to create.
A look wrong the Naughty Dog offices
Do you person immoderate tendency to spell towards lighter fare oregon instrumentality to your roots, to those kid-friendly games?
Evan Wells: If we had endless resources and clip it would beryllium ace amusive to bash that. You look astatine what Insomniac is doing with Ratchet and Clank and it’s exciting. It’s large to spot that stuff. We’re conscionable constricted with time, you know, I’m 48 years-old and however galore much games bash you get to make, truthful you got to prime and choose.
Neil Druckmann: Once we decorativeness a project, we walk rather a spot of clip entertaining each sorts of antithetic directions, whether it’s going to beryllium thing caller oregon if we’re going backmost to immoderate aged franchise. We truly instrumentality our clip with it, and if you were to spot our folders of conception creation you’d spot unused concepts that are each implicit the gamut. Then we look astatine everything and we inquire ourselves what are we excited by? What’s thing that’s going to situation america and propulsion us, and propulsion the mean arsenic acold arsenic games that tin be? Because that inspiration is truthful important to transportation done years of production.
A batch of fans person this cognition of Naughty Dog arsenic this crown jewel successful Sony’s cap, similar the champion of the champion successful the improvement world. Do you spot yourselves that way?
Evan Wells: That’s a large question. We conscionable effort to marque games that excite us. We effort to marque games that are going to beryllium amusive to play and received good by our fans, and rewarding for the squad to create. We’re not truly driven by immoderate unit from Sony to bash thing successful particular.
Neil Druckmann: To bargain a word from someone, our marque is excellence and radical travel to Naughty Dog to execute excellence and we springiness ourselves the unit of surviving up to the kinds of games radical expect from us.
You’ve said that you look up to studios similar Insomniac, Guerrilla Games, and Sony Santa Monica. What specifically bash you spot them doing that inspires you?
Neil Druckmann: It mightiness beryllium immoderate peculiar tech similar what Guerrilla was capable to execute with however dense their foliage is. We looked astatine that, and we talked to them astir that.
Evan Wells: You ever travel retired with thing that you could bash better, adjacent if it’s not thing you follow directly. So galore times you’re brainstorming thing successful the bureau with your colleagues, and you look astatine thing like, “Yeah, that’s conscionable gonna beryllium excessively hard to implement. We can’t spell down that road.” And past you spell speech to different studio, and you spot that they’ve done that precise happening oregon thing precise akin and you’re like, “Oh my God!” And past they speech astir however it’s paid off, and you’re instantly inspired.
The Last of Us Part II conception art
Do you person immoderate circumstantial examples of that?
Evan Wells: Very aboriginal connected successful The Last of Us Part II development, we knew that it was taking places successful Seattle, and we knew that Sucker Punch had wholly modeled Seattle for Infamous Second Son. We said, “We’re not going to usage the assets successful the game, but we privation to rapidly consciousness retired the space, truthful tin we get entree to those assets?” And they said, “Sure,” and sent it over. We were capable to rapidly unsmooth retired the environment. That was a immense help.
Neil Druckmann: Another happening that comes to caput erstwhile we were talking to Sucker Punch is that we were talking astir mo-capping a equine for The Last of Us Part II, and we were looking for ways to bash it, and they were like, “Oh, we’re astir to bash the aforesaid happening [for Ghost of Tsushima]. Let’s treble up our efforts.” Motion seizure for a large carnal is simply a large deal, and we were capable to conscionable attack the occupation unneurotic and usage akin data, sometimes the aforesaid information for some games.
I wouldn’t person adjacent thought astir mo-capping a horse. That’s brainsick that you did that.
Neil Druckmann: We besides mo-capped dogs, and past there’s a sheep series successful The Last of Us Part II, and that’s really dogs acting similar sheep.
Naughty Dog has specified a proven way record, but that hasn’t travel without cost. Over the years, you’ve travel nether occurrence for workplace crunch. Could you talk to your idiosyncratic acquisition with crunch and however that’s affected the studio?
Evan Wells: I person decidedly personally worked precise hard implicit the years. I deliberation immoderate of that has helped maine get to wherever I americium successful my career. As a studio, we’ve each worked hard together, and we are moving precise hard connected each task to find the close balance, conscionable similar we bash successful each of our method aspects of creating a game. We person station mortems and we look astatine however the animation went and we look astatine however the plan went and we excavation truly heavy into each the things that could person been amended and the things we got right. We bash the aforesaid happening with production. We look astatine however the full crippled was created, and wherever we tin marque improvements and however we tin onslaught the close equilibrium betwixt giving radical the accidental to – arsenic I mentioned earlier – permission their people connected the manufacture and beforehand their trade successful ways that person ne'er been achieved, but besides find abstraction on that spectrum.
Neil Druckmann: We person truthful galore talented radical that are bully astatine solving problems, whether they’re originative oregon technical. Let maine spell backmost to The Last of Us Part II; immoderate pillars that were important to america were diversity, diverseness successful the radical we prosecute and the characters that we person successful our crippled arsenic good arsenic accessibility and however bash we marque our games much accessible. Likewise, we’re looking astatine prime of beingness for preventing burnout, to employment the encephalon powerfulness we person successful our studio, and we started coming up with moving groups to speech astir the areas successful the workplace wherever we tin improve. We worked a peculiar mode erstwhile we’re 40 people, present we person to germinate arsenic we support growing.
Evan Wells: Something other that we’re truly focused connected is expanding the level of absorption astatine the studio. We person much directors and much leads, each with the extremity end of giving the full squad much opportunities to supply feedback and cheque successful connected their well-being.
Neil Druckmann: Everybody has a antithetic explanation of what crunch means. And I conjecture for us, we deliberation of it as, however bash we look retired for the well-being of our colleagues and everyone that works astatine Naughty Dog, which is immoderate operation of however galore hours you enactment and however overmuch accent you’re feeling, whether that’s thing that’s going connected successful the bureau oregon astatine home. We find that determination is nary 1 solution that fits everybody. Everybody has a unsocial concern we mightiness request to address.
One of the things that the manufacture has talked astir arsenic a imaginable solution is unionization. Do you person thoughts connected unionization?
Evan Wells: I haven’t enactment a batch of thought into that. I don’t cognize if that would beryllium a solution for crunch. To Neil’s constituent astir making definite that everybody is capable to enactment arsenic hard oregon arsenic small arsenic they want, we’ve got to make an situation that allows that. If we had immoderate benignant of regularisation wherever erstwhile the timepiece strikes 40 hours the servers unopen down and you can’t enactment anymore, that would frustrate radical to nary end. There are radical who truly privation to enactment successful that other polish connected their ain volition, and they would consciousness handcuffed.
Neil Druckmann: We’ve tried stuff, similar Evan is describing, successful the past wherever we’ve said, “Okay, nary moving past this hour,” or, “It’s mandatory that nary 1 tin enactment connected Sunday,” and they’re ever a batch of country cases of idiosyncratic saying, “Well, I couldn’t enactment connected Friday due to the fact that I had to beryllium with my kids. It’s really much convenient for maine to travel successful connected Sunday.” When you effort to person a metallic bullet, similar 1 solution, you’re ever leaving idiosyncratic behind. That’s wherefore we consciousness similar we request aggregate solutions. We person to attack this from aggregate angles.
A Naughty Dog household shot
You talked astir ensuring that the workplace is simply a amusive environment. What does that look like?
Neil Druckmann: We marque video games, right? So galore of america person dreamed astir doing this erstwhile we were kids and sometimes you’re successful it truthful agelong you hide to admit it. For maine it’s conscionable a changeless reminder that the originative process, the putting the happening together, should beryllium amusive successful itself. That’s astir however bash you get feedback? How bash you realign idiosyncratic that was moving connected [an] thought that mightiness not enactment out, but inactive animate them to travel backmost to the vision? There’s an creation to that.
Some companies look to beryllium moving distant from the big, story-driven single-player games. For example, Ubisoft precocious announced that it would beryllium processing much long-tail, free-to-play games. Do you consciousness that story-driven, single-player games are inactive Naughty Dog’s future?
Evan Wells: Absolutely. Yeah, and it’s benignant of successful our DNA to archer these stories. I deliberation that’s going to continue. Single-player experiences are adjacent and beloved to us. It’s what has attracted a batch of radical to Naughty Dog, and that’s what inspires them, truthful I deliberation we’re going to support astatine it arsenic agelong arsenic we can.
Neil Druckmann: And again, going backmost to who Sony is, determination has ne'er been a mandate like, “Oh, this is wherever we spot the winds shifting. Can you commencement making these benignant of games instead?” We cognize conscionable arsenic they cognize that erstwhile you enactment connected thing you’re excited by, thing you’re passionate by, you’re going to bash large work.
You fundamentally enactment a bow connected the Uncharted series, but you inactive person that The Last of Us multiplayer task successful the works. Do you privation to proceed to enactment connected the IP you’ve established oregon bash you person a tendency to make caller properties astatine this point?
Evan Wells: I deliberation the casual reply is: both. I deliberation there’s excitement to make caller IP, but determination is inactive a ton of emotion for Uncharted and The Last of Us, and I deliberation you’ll spot some kinds of projects from america successful the future.
The Last of Us Part II was a big, sprawling task and it was mostly well-received, but a definite conception was precise captious of assorted aspects of the game. How did you, arsenic a studio, woody with that?
Neil Druckmann: When we started making The Last of Us Part II, specifically, we knew we were making thing that would beryllium arguable for portion of the fanbase. That’s not the crushed to marque it, we made it contempt that. Our volition is not to upset radical oregon alienate people, our volition is to archer a communicative that’s meaningful to america that we deliberation has immoderate worth down it, and is worthy spending years of our clip making. When we had the leaks, earlier anybody had a accidental to play it, that’s erstwhile we got a ton of negativity, and we started questioning, “Is this crippled going to beryllium palmy astatine all?” We didn’t adjacent cognize however overmuch the leak truly wounded us. That was truly the debased constituent for me. And it helped that immoderate radical successful the workplace – similar [character creation director] Ashley Swidowski reached retired to maine and said, “I conscionable privation you to cognize that nary substance what happens, I americium arrogant of this game. It’s my favourite crippled I’ve worked on, and you don’t recognize however overmuch this means to me.” More than anything, that’s the happening that makes maine proud. Sometimes I get asked, “Do you get tense for interviews oregon for doing a presumption astatine E3?” And, I’m an introvert and determination is immoderate level of nervousness, but I ne'er get much tense than erstwhile I person to talk successful beforehand of each of Naughty Dog, due to the fact that there’s cipher that Evan and I privation to marque much arrogant than everybody other who works connected the game, due to the fact that they enactment truthful overmuch of themselves into the game. They’re truthful excited and they’re truthful passionate astir what they’re making. Those are the radical I privation to marque arrogant much than thing else. If immoderate percent of the workplace didn’t similar the crippled that would conscionable bum maine retired beyond repair. As acold arsenic radical connected the outside, I’m like, “That’s unfortunate [you didn’t similar The Last of Us Part II], but I basal by the crippled we made.”
Sounds similar you’re saying that immoderate of the biggest fans of Naughty Dog are astatine Naughty Dog?
Neil Druckmann: I would accidental that the biggest fans and the biggest critics are wrong Naughty Dog, and that’s what keeps america arsenic bully arsenic we are.
This nonfiction primitively appeared successful Issue 337 of Game Informer.